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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s not simple, so don&#8217;t claim it is!</title>
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	<description>Oracle related rants (and lots of off-topic stuff)...</description>
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		<title>By: Rob Leadbeater</title>
		<link>http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-17944</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Leadbeater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2007 08:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/#comment-17944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi,

As the one probably most to blame for Tim&#039;s current work position, I think I should apologise for his rant :-)

But why are support services so bad these days...? You can probably blame the commodity hardware phenomenon.
There&#039;s an interesting discussion over on the HP forums.

http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1060955

I quite like this quote from Duncan Edmonstone:

&quot;10 years ago, when we bought a &#039;critical&#039; system we were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars/pounds/shekels/&#039;insert your currency here&#039; on the tin, and we didn&#039;t think much of spending up to 20% of the value of the tin on support contracts. 20% of a $1M tin purchase paid the salary of at least one head to support that system!

Now we are in the land of &#039;commodity IT&#039; - this is where IT analysts, industry experts and yes, the vendors too have been pushing us - now that critical system might only cost us $0.1M, and guess what - 20% of *that* figure don&#039;t pay much of anyones salary, whether they&#039;re in Palo Alto, Houston, New York, London, or even Bangalore...&quot;

Makes you think doesn&#039;t it !

Cheers,

Rob]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>As the one probably most to blame for Tim&#8217;s current work position, I think I should apologise for his rant <img src='http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But why are support services so bad these days&#8230;? You can probably blame the commodity hardware phenomenon.<br />
There&#8217;s an interesting discussion over on the HP forums.</p>
<p><a href="http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1060955" rel="nofollow">http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1060955</a></p>
<p>I quite like this quote from Duncan Edmonstone:</p>
<p>&#8220;10 years ago, when we bought a &#8216;critical&#8217; system we were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars/pounds/shekels/&#8217;insert your currency here&#8217; on the tin, and we didn&#8217;t think much of spending up to 20% of the value of the tin on support contracts. 20% of a $1M tin purchase paid the salary of at least one head to support that system!</p>
<p>Now we are in the land of &#8216;commodity IT&#8217; &#8211; this is where IT analysts, industry experts and yes, the vendors too have been pushing us &#8211; now that critical system might only cost us $0.1M, and guess what &#8211; 20% of *that* figure don&#8217;t pay much of anyones salary, whether they&#8217;re in Palo Alto, Houston, New York, London, or even Bangalore&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Makes you think doesn&#8217;t it !</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Rob</p>
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		<title>By: Tim...</title>
		<link>http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-17780</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 06:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/#comment-17780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Howard: It always ends with a backlash of people complaining how they were lied to about the simplicity...

Paul: Good to hear from you. You don&#039;t know the half of it. :)

Cheers

Tim...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard: It always ends with a backlash of people complaining how they were lied to about the simplicity&#8230;</p>
<p>Paul: Good to hear from you. You don&#8217;t know the half of it. <img src='http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Tim&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Howard Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-17705</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 01:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/#comment-17705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I couldn&#039;t agree with you more. 

There&#039;s just been a flurry of posts about recovery with XE. Oracle thoughtfully provides a &#039;restore database&#039; option in the Windows menus, but if you need to do disaster recovery, for example, it doesn&#039;t have any pre-built scripts that prompt you to specify a DBID, for example. At which point, it&#039;s back to the command line and having to type it out for yourself -but you want to bet how many XE users, familiar with its cutesy interface, are going to have a clue what to type or why? 

Anyone who learnt RMAN the hard way, however, will not have a problem working it out.

So what was the point of a cutsey interface in the first place?! 

Making people believe that recovering a database -*any* database- is a piece of cake and a mere two-click effort is a serious disservice, and Oracle shouldn&#039;t be thanked for it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree with you more. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s just been a flurry of posts about recovery with XE. Oracle thoughtfully provides a &#8216;restore database&#8217; option in the Windows menus, but if you need to do disaster recovery, for example, it doesn&#8217;t have any pre-built scripts that prompt you to specify a DBID, for example. At which point, it&#8217;s back to the command line and having to type it out for yourself -but you want to bet how many XE users, familiar with its cutesy interface, are going to have a clue what to type or why? </p>
<p>Anyone who learnt RMAN the hard way, however, will not have a problem working it out.</p>
<p>So what was the point of a cutsey interface in the first place?! </p>
<p>Making people believe that recovering a database -*any* database- is a piece of cake and a mere two-click effort is a serious disservice, and Oracle shouldn&#8217;t be thanked for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Collings</title>
		<link>http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-17611</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Collings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 11:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/#comment-17611</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the analogy with sparkies &amp; plumbers and I feel for your position, it seems to have deteriorated since 2004 when I worked with you.

Do you feel that if you could get your message across to the &#039;pointy-haired&#039; bosses that they are being sucked into mass marketing hype, they would change?

I for one do not.


Regards,

Paul]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the analogy with sparkies &amp; plumbers and I feel for your position, it seems to have deteriorated since 2004 when I worked with you.</p>
<p>Do you feel that if you could get your message across to the &#8216;pointy-haired&#8217; bosses that they are being sucked into mass marketing hype, they would change?</p>
<p>I for one do not.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Paul</p>
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		<title>By: Paul James</title>
		<link>http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-17609</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 11:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oracle-base.com/blog/2007/05/10/its-not-simple-so-dont-claim-it-is/#comment-17609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hear Hear!

I think it&#039;s a combination of employers not understanding that better quality people (at more cost) is better value and employees over inflating there skills to stand out from the crowd (and not being &quot;found out&quot; before being hired).

Not sure what the answer is, but I still cringe when I recall an &quot;experienced&quot; contractor asking me some years ago - &quot;So what are indexes for?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hear Hear!</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a combination of employers not understanding that better quality people (at more cost) is better value and employees over inflating there skills to stand out from the crowd (and not being &#8220;found out&#8221; before being hired).</p>
<p>Not sure what the answer is, but I still cringe when I recall an &#8220;experienced&#8221; contractor asking me some years ago &#8211; &#8220;So what are indexes for?&#8221;</p>
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